Scottish Independence... What are your thoughts?

[MPS16]

....Down south, the anti-European Union separatists in Essex will be getting their first Westminster MP in a few weeks’ time and there might be others to follow in the coming months. Politics in England are about to fracture in a serious way over the EU and the existing Westminster elite might .......

Yes The United Kingdom Independence Party were 12 to 1 on with the bookmakers last night.

UKIP might just get 2 seats on the same day.

[PetBazaar]

If the newspapers could tell the truth for one day. They might look something like this...

“In a huge boost for the independence campaign, Royal Bank of Scotland today announced that it would move its registered office from Edinburgh to London in the event of a Yes vote. First Minister Alex Salmond was reported to be delighted that the possible future burden of having to bailout the failed bank had been lifted from the shoulders of the Scottish Government.

(The threat was in fact a mythical one, as bank bailouts are not conducted on the basis of head-office location, but had frequently been rolled out as a scare story by the anti-independence campaign.)

With RBS unlikely to pay any Corporation Tax for decades on account of its gargantuan and ongoing losses from the financial crash, there was no downside for Holyrood, with the bank stating unambiguously in a letter to employees that it had ‘no intention to move operations or jobs’.

In other words, an independent Scotland would keep all the benefits of the bank – employment, services and employee taxation and spending – with none of the dangerous liabilities. The news will encourage businesses to invest in the Scottish economy, knowing that their money is secure. The outcome would give an independent Scotland the best of both worlds.”

[Maelbrigda]

In the Thursday group this morning we discussed that very point. Rbs have said no jobs will be lost so it is no loss for Scotland. On Facebook this morning was a open letter from a Quebec resident who changed his vote at the last minute because the parties offered more powers to Quebec, which years on they still don't have. I make no secret that I am a yes voter but my 3 children eligible to vote will all be voting no. This has not caused us any problems. We agree to disagree. I feel sure if it is a no vote the issue will not go away. As has been said the debates have made some of those that have never voted before become aware of how important politics are.
on a side note I was in a cafe last week and two elderly ladies were discussing the debate the previous evening. One said to the other that she would be voting no because and I quote' "Alastair darling is a much nicer looking man. That Alex almond has really let himself go". What can you say to a mindset like that!

[astral276]

That Alex almond has really let himself go".

Probably thought he was a nut.

[CarnoustieCats]

I am YES - friends and family are split YES and NO - we are not going to fall out about it...

My grandparents were lifelong Liberals and my parents were lifelong Tories but they believed in respect for the office of Prime Minister and would have been so shocked at his use of the phrase 'effing Tories' - does not matter about the content, it is the fact that he said it.

Several large retailers have announced today that shopping prices in Scotland will increase... umm okay, so they don't want our business well that's okay there are plenty of others who do. And the Banks are taking their 'nameplates' down to England but leaving the jobs in Scotland - okay whatever ....

One thing I have noticed - The NO campaingers are dour, not a smile amongst them while the YES campaigners all smile and laugh (maybe a case of hurrah wir a' daft )

[HobbyHabitat]

If the newspapers could tell the truth for one day. They might look something like this...

“In a huge boost for the independence campaign, Royal Bank of Scotland today announced that it would move its registered office from Edinburgh to London in the event of a Yes vote. First Minister Alex Salmond was reported to be delighted that the possible future burden of having to bailout the failed bank had been lifted from the shoulders of the Scottish Government.

(The threat was in fact a mythical one, as bank bailouts are not conducted on the basis of head-office location, but had frequently been rolled out as a scare story by the anti-independence campaign.)

With RBS unlikely to pay any Corporation Tax for decades on account of its gargantuan and ongoing losses from the financial crash, there was no downside for Holyrood, with the bank stating unambiguously in a letter to employees that it had ‘no intention to move operations or jobs’.

In other words, an independent Scotland would keep all the benefits of the bank – employment, services and employee taxation and spending – with none of the dangerous liabilities. The news will encourage businesses to invest in the Scottish economy, knowing that their money is secure. The outcome would give an independent Scotland the best of both worlds.”

a question uncle Alex failed to answer asked by a top bbc political reporter today was, " why should the people of Scotland believe you about the future of Scottish finances over the heads of top multi million pound organisations which say you are wrong?"
also, I hope you get a yes vote, with uncle alex being so good and knowing soooooo much, surely it cant be that long before he is head of the eu........and hopefully kick England out of the eu!

[PetBazaar]

a question uncle Alex failed to answer asked by a top bbc political reporter today was, " why should the people of Scotland believe you about the future of Scottish finances over the heads of top multi million pound organisations which say you are wrong?"
also, I hope you get a yes vote, with uncle alex being so good and knowing soooooo much, surely it cant be that long before he is head of the eu........and hopefully kick England out of the eu!

How are you meant to answer a rhetorical question? Trust is emotional, not logical. There is no factual answer to that question.

For every multi million pound organisation saying that he's wrong, there's another saying that he's not far off the mark.

Interesting too that people have chosen to focus on this rather than the fact that the Treasury has broken pretty much every rule in the book by leaking market-sensitive information about RBS. You'll notice too that the impartial BBC appears to have edited out that portion of the speech in most of its reporting.

[DandC_Warehouse]

It is clear to me today that the BBC has all but openly joined the "NO Scotland" campaign.

[astral276]

For every multi million pound organisation saying that he's wrong, there's another saying that he's not far off the mark.

Let's hope for a YES win then, otherwise we will never know who was right.

[westlondoncarparts]

The debate about these large companies would be much more balanced if we had best estimates of how much their payroll costs are subsidised by the taxpayer by way of tax credits, housing benefit payments, etc.. Because the wages paid to staff by some of these companies are so low relative to the cost of living, the welfare state has to step in with these types of welfare payments so that their employees can pay for the basics of life.

The debate would also be much more balanced if we had full transparency on how some of these companies that operate internationally manage their overseas taxation arrangements in such a way that they pay as little UK corporation tax as possible, especially when they manipulate charges between their UK and overseas companies to minimise their taxable profits in the UK.

These companies are not necessarily the paragons of virtue or wealth creators that they are made out to be.

In fact some of them can only survive in their present form because they are effectively subsidised by the taxpayer through welfare payments and legal tax avoidance. Their senior executives still take excessive pay packages despite this.

If we had this information, the debate that should be taking place is how do we address cost of living issues (the residential property price bubble being one of the biggest) and how do we address the low wage economy? How do we improve our tax laws to reduce lawful tax avoidance?

Here in London around 40% of households receive housing benefit, the majority of these being households in work. The benefit is needed because the cost of property (either for purchase or rent) is so high compared to earnings that a roof over their heads is unaffordable for so many people. This is a symptom of a major local housing problem which is also reflected elsewhere across the UK. We know how the current Government addresses such issues. They paint the misleading picture that recipients of housing benefits are work shy and that it is a life style choice for them to go back to bed in the early morning when others are going to work and to claim benefits. They say little about the housing shortage which is the cause of high property prices. If I were a betting person, I would lay money on the table that such issues would start to be debated property and the correct problem solving done in an independent Scotland. The Westminster track record is that we do not do the problem solving properly, instead political ideology comes first irrespective of whether it works or not in practice, and so Westminster fails the national electorate.

If there is a NO vote, I sincerely hope that the current high level of political debate in Scotland continues and that the Scottish people really get debate going in Westminster also and that they bring influence to bear to change how things get done at Westminster. The Scottish people fought against a defective Westminster before with Upper Clyde Shipbuilders and won, and they can do the same kind of thing again in the future and can help to create a better kind of UK by changing the remote and out of touch Westminster. They will need to find again their collective voice in Westminster that got lost during the trauma of the Thatcher years and to keep their resolve high and give Westminster a good shaking down to ensure that it represents all of the UK. The significant divergence between English and Scottish politics that has led to the current referendum started with the divisiveness of Thatcherism and the legacy of that divisiveness needs to be recognised and addressed and healed by all parts of the UK in relationship with Scotland if Scotland is to reintegrate meaningfully back into Westminster in the event of a NO vote. The truth is that England is going to need Scotland to be the catalyst for change at Westminster because it has not been able to bring about the change itself.

The BBC can no longer be replied upon for balanced unbiased reporting.

In fact, at the level of the BBC’s national broadcasting, how many of its presenters are Scottish? How many of the English presenters would have enough experience and knowledge of Scottish affairs to be able to put together balanced programmes about Scotland to go out on the national network?