Bonus for eBid? :D

[Teddyrose54]

Very true Sid, that you can appeal.
But they will not act, until they have enough evidence, to prove you are running a business.
In Sam's case it was 5 years, and once you have posted on any site, they have their evidence in writing, so to speak.
They will make sure they have a pretty strong case, before they act.

[westlondoncarparts]

Going off topic and trying to provide clarity to keep it simple…….

The basic principles of UK tax law are that people who are selling items that they bought with the intention of selling on a commercial basis are generally deemed to be in business, and are therefore subject to prevailing taxation rules for businesses and need to declare to HMRC each year their business financial results.

People who are selling items that they never intended to sell on are generally deemed to be not in business and are subject to prevailing personal taxation rules rather than to prevailing business taxation rules. At present this means that non-business sellers are subject to personal capital gains tax on their sales of personal items when appropriate and will need to declare to HMRC their capital gains tax liability.

HMRC are entitled to raise queries about non-business sales but they can only make tax due assessments that are based upon tax law. Therefore, non-business sellers who earn a few thousand pounds of income each year from the sale of personal items have no tax liability on their sales because there is no UK tax law that says they have to be taxed.

People who falsely claim that they are selling personal items to avoid tax liabilities when in fact they are business sellers will be assessed for tax by HMRC as business sellers and will also be prosecuted where it can be proven that they acted with intent to defraud HMRC with false declarations of private selling.

The requirement on the other auction site for some sellers to be registered as business sellers has nothing to do with UK tax law but with the consumer protection related Distance Selling Regulations that apply across the European Union.

What HMRC deem to be business selling under tax law and what the Distance Selling Regulations deem to be business selling under consumer protection law are not necessarily the same thing.

I mention these points to avoid a lengthy thread that is meaningless because contributors are getting tax law mixed up with consumer protection law.

[sidthelamp]

Going off topic and trying to provide clarity to keep it simple…….

The basic principles of UK tax law are that people who are selling items that they bought with the intention of selling on a commercial basis are generally deemed to be in business, and are therefore subject to prevailing taxation rules for businesses and need to declare to HMRC each year their business financial results.

People who are selling items that they never intended to sell on are generally deemed to be not in business and are subject to prevailing personal taxation rules rather than to prevailing business taxation rules. At present this means that non-business sellers are subject to personal capital gains tax on their sales of personal items when appropriate and will need to declare to HMRC their capital gains tax liability.

HMRC are entitled to raise queries about non-business sales but they can only make tax due assessments that are based upon tax law. Therefore, non-business sellers who earn a few thousand pounds of income each year from the sale of personal items have no tax liability on their sales because there is no UK tax law that says they have to be taxed.

People who falsely claim that they are selling personal items to avoid tax liabilities when in fact they are business sellers will be assessed for tax by HMRC as business sellers and will also be prosecuted where it can be proven that they acted with intent to defraud HMRC with false declarations of private selling.

The requirement on the other auction site for some sellers to be registered as business sellers has nothing to do with UK tax law but with the consumer protection related Distance Selling Regulations that apply across the European Union.

What HMRC deem to be business selling under tax law and what the Distance Selling Regulations deem to be business selling under consumer protection law are not necessarily the same thing.

I mention these points to avoid a lengthy thread that is meaningless because contributors are getting tax law mixed up with consumer protection law.

were as i agree with most of your points the DSRs act clearly says you dont have to declare you are a business to trade as a business on line , if you do so and there is a break in contract then the buyer has more rights under the same act, consumer law also gives the buyer different rights running parallel with any contract you have entered into . the key here is contract, when a contract is entered into,when completed, and if said contract was unreasonable, eg private car parking charges,

the only online trading commerce site i know that confused the two laws , to further there own ends and drive seller against seller ( as a result of omitting the relevant lawful facts ) is in my top 5 reasons for joining ebid 6 years ago

[sidthelamp]

Very true Sid, that you can appeal.
But they will not act, until they have enough evidence, to prove you are running a business.
In Sam's case it was 5 years, and once you have posted on any site, they have their evidence in writing, so to speak.
They will make sure they have a pretty strong case, before they act.

agreed

[Teddyrose54]

Going off topic and trying to provide clarity to keep it simple…….

The basic principles of UK tax law are that people who are selling items that they bought with the intention of selling on a commercial basis are generally deemed to be in business, and are therefore subject to prevailing taxation rules for businesses and need to declare to HMRC each year their business financial results.

People who are selling items that they never intended to sell on are generally deemed to be not in business and are subject to prevailing personal taxation rules rather than to prevailing business taxation rules. At present this means that non-business sellers are subject to personal capital gains tax on their sales of personal items when appropriate and will need to declare to HMRC their capital gains tax liability.

HMRC are entitled to raise queries about non-business sales but they can only make tax due assessments that are based upon tax law. Therefore, non-business sellers who earn a few thousand pounds of income each year from the sale of personal items have no tax liability on their sales because there is no UK tax law that says they have to be taxed.

People who falsely claim that they are selling personal items to avoid tax liabilities when in fact they are business sellers will be assessed for tax by HMRC as business sellers and will also be prosecuted where it can be proven that they acted with intent to defraud HMRC with false declarations of private selling.

The requirement on the other auction site for some sellers to be registered as business sellers has nothing to do with UK tax law but with the consumer protection related Distance Selling Regulations that apply across the European Union.

What HMRC deem to be business selling under tax law and what the Distance Selling Regulations deem to be business selling under consumer protection law are not necessarily the same thing.

I mention these points to avoid a lengthy thread that is meaningless because contributors are getting tax law mixed up with consumer protection law.

I am not confused over the two issues.
I do however feel it is wrong to give the impression, that selling a few thousands dollars or pounds of items, per year, may be over looked.
How much is a few thousands per year in monetary value?
If I earn over £5,000 per year, that may be more that someone earns part time working for an employer.

To sell a few items now and again, is something a lot of people do, without any problems.
But it is now and again, and not week after week.
With listings running into the hundreds.

I have asked HMRC if you can have an on line shop or store and not be a business.
"The simple answer is no." Which is a direct quote, from the HMRC office.
I can not see any reason not to register as a business, if you are selling or listing regularly

[sidthelamp]

i find this interesting what the IR say

Even if what you are doing isn’t classified as trading you might have to pay Capital Gains Tax. Capital Gains Tax is a tax on the profit or gain you make when you sell or dispose of an asset. You usually dispose of an asset when you cease to own it - that is if you sell it, give it away as a gift or transfer it to someone else.
Possessions worth up to £6,000 each, such as jewellery, paintings or antiques are exempt.
It’s the gain you make - not the amount of money you receive for the asset - that’s taxed.

they imply if i give some thing away ie i dont receive any money or gain then i may be subject to capital gains tax, so if i gave mr x a asset for nothing what gain would i make ? presumably a thank you and a smile , what would be the capital gain liability i would have to pay?

[sidthelamp]

one of the biggest businesses in the UK as far as the value of the asset goes, attracts no capital gains tax , if the said business is used in a commercial sense, for 3 years or more from ownership , which also means no capital gains tax is due on any income you may receive from the business,

[gyronny]

I remember when I was "over there" the forums gradually degenerated into AYRAB abuse on virtually every subject.
What does it have to do with anybody?
If you choose to register and abide by the rules it does not give you the right to impose your views on anybody else.
If an unregistered seller gets caught up by the Revenue/tax man it will be their problem not yours.
Ebay became very nasty and dictatorial, that's when I decided to leave, let's not let the forums here become like those days of prodnoses and holier than thee posts.
Live and let live

[sidthelamp]

I remember when I was "over there" the forums gradually degenerated into AYRAB abuse on virtually every subject.
What does it have to do with anybody?
If you choose to register and abide by the rules it does not give you the right to impose your views on anybody else.
If an unregistered seller gets caught up by the Revenue/tax man it will be their problem not yours.
Ebay became very nasty and dictatorial, that's when I decided to leave, let's not let the forums here become like those days of prodnoses and holier than thee posts.
Live and let live

i totally agree with your post

any persons tax declaration is there business ,tthere status on line as a business or private seller is there business

[purplestevie]

Why not transfer them all here??