Some explanation is needed...

[hotandvintage]

Surely that applies to sellers not buyers.

Helen and graham makes some very fair points in their looooong post on this page. Paypal is a secure system to use, no-matter how brainwashed some folks are about it. If you don't check that it really is a Paypal page you are on and you input your details then, more fool you.

The Paypal phishing scams are not as common as they once were, scammers seem to be concentrating much more on the phishing of bank details these days so, frankly, it's merely another distraction fro the real issue and I can see absolutely no reason to refuse to accept paymant through Paypal at any time.

Of course, I always send items by signed for mail so I have the proof that the item arrived at the address it was sent to and I can even access the signature that was given when the item was signed for. Sure, I suppose all of that could be false.

If an item arrives and the buyer is not happy with it then they must send it back to me and I give them a refund. Paypal will ask the buyer for proof they have returned the item but, actually, this doesn't happen because on the very very rare occasion when it happens (and I think it only has been once) the item was returned and the money refunded to the buyer BY ME with no need to resort to a Paypal chargeback. If an item arrives broken (again a very rare occurrence) all the buyer has to do to satisfy me is send a photo of the breakage and I will refund their payment in full (they also get to keep the item).

I know I'm not the only seller who operates that system because, just occasionally, something I have bought arrives broken and in every case I have had no problem with the seller refunding me.

Point being, I am very happy indeed in my dealings with online sellers and buyers using Paypal (also in the Real World where I've used Paypal to purchase from a store I was actually standing in).

To bring Paypal into a discussion about whether it's clever to strike through newbie BUYERS is totally irrelevant. If you don't like Paypal then don't use it and don't accept sales through it, simple.

It doesn't actually have anything to do with the issue being discussed.

But what I will restate here is something that Helen and Graham said pages back, how about eBid allowing sellers to put a buy now Paypal button on their listings?

With a buy now Paypal button I could put a little bit of text stating that if you're not a member of eBid you can still buy this item by simply clicking the Paypal buy now button I provide.

I would be happy with this, the buyer doesn't register so can't receive a strike through their username and I still get the sale.

If a seller doesn't want to deal that way with 'strangers' then they don't have to as the button would be something I would add to listings, you choose for yourself whether you want to use it. Of course, you have to sort the details for the button yourself but, as I understand it, it isn't rocket science and it would neatly get around the whole problem here, optional and easy to add.

I would point out though, everyone we deal with online is a stranger. You may think you know them but you don't, it could be a seven foot green monster sitting behind the keyboard, you can't tell. To take some of the paranoia I've seen in this thread to it's logical conclusion, I can't understand why half of the paranoid individuals are selling anything at all ... scams happen, they are very rare.

Accidents happen, does that stop you going out for a walk or a drive?

Buildings sometimes collapse or go on fire, does that stop you going into any building?

Storekeepers in the RW get robbed, sometimes shot and killed, just as well they don't all give up selling their commodities to the public.

If eBid can't fix the problem of strike throughs sending my precious buyers away in disgust, then the least they can do is allow me to place a button on my auction pages to enable the strangers I am happy to deal with to buy my items.

When I (and the friend I talked into joining) paid my lifetime seller+ membership, the fee was 99.99 and, frankly, right now I feel robbed.

It is you that is bringing up paypal, as you seem to be under the impression that it is safe, even when pointed out it has problems.

Your cart experience is asking for not just the seller and buyer to put total trust in paypal ID checks but also ebid, as it will be them that get it in the neck every time someone gets scammed.

OK you and others trust paypal with your life and your grannies life by the sounds of it. But what about the rest of us that see through the smoke and mirrors and see them for what they are. Do we stop using ebid when they introduce your system.

Now we all agree this problem needs fixed but what you are talking about is not just a case of adding a button or even adding a little bit script. This would be a total overhaul of the site, as it is not just adding a shopping cart, it would have to also make use of the two tier user system that would also have to be created. That would not just be written into the cart but also in to the feedback system and other sections of the site with access some areas or access all areas.

This simple little change would be considered by any one that has even the basic idea about what web design consists of as a major update. So giving people the idea it is anything less is rather silly in my point of view.

And as to the problems with paypal I have already stated some of the basic reasons why it is not trusted by people, and it is not just phishing sites, as why bother with them when you only have to beat the most simple password, thanks to paypals strength meter.
And like I said before we could go on all day about the problems with paypal security as its user experience is just as bad.

But for those that wanted to know what was said and are interested in the subject of the strikethrough buyer

We have not yet been contacted by the bidder. We have removed the associated
fee. Please repost the listing if you wish.

So I either have to think it was an idiot they just saved me from or another sale lost to a customer that got put off by the system?

And as to contacting them this is what I get where the info is supposed to be

Email : Not Available
Address : User no longer active

So although this is a buyer problem that has to be fixed, I think I have shown it is not any easier for the seller on the other side of it.

I would also like to know if anyone has asked the question if this is a buyer that just fails for whatever reason to sign up, then are their details totally or always banned from the site, as if they were a scammer?

[0ctavias0fferings]

Ok, it's clear that plenty of people here seem to think Paypal is some sort of scam workshop. Personally I have greater trust in Paypal than I do in pretty much all of the other sites where I am asked for details such as credit or debit card details.

I get the message that you don't like Paypal. I do. So we have a difference of opinion.

Allowing me to add a Paypal Buy Now button to my listing is no different than allowing me to add pictures using html.

THIS REQUIRES NO CODING ON THE SITE AT ALL.

I can add such a Paypal button to a blog page, I can (and will) add such a button to a Squidoo page. I probably could just go ahead and add it to pages here but the management might not like that so I am now asking, through this thread, if they will allow me to do so.

Of course, they would have to rely on my honesty if they want 2% fees for the sale and I can see they might have a problem with that so, if they won't allow me to add a Paypal button to my listing pages so that non-registered buyers can buy without getting a blackened username, I want to know how they are going to overcome what is clearly a major problem.

[0ctavias0fferings]

Oh, yes, as for your buyer, they are hardly likely to contact you if their name has a strike through. How could they? You may never know whether they were genuine or not.

You mention Paypal passwords. Any site you must use a secure sign in on requires a password. You are the one who sets the password. You are the person in control of the strength of that password and therefore you decide how secure to make it.

If you are unsure of how to make a secure password, there is advice on the Pheebay.com pages on how to do this.

To use this as some excuse for Paypal not being secure is nonsense. By far the most common way of gaining unauthorised access to anyone's account, whether it be on an auction site, a bank site, Paypal or wherever, is as the result of a phishing email which someone has taken as a real one and has signed in from, thus giving away their information.

[HelenAndGraham]

It is you that is bringing up paypal, as you seem to be under the impression that it is safe, even when pointed out it has problems.

I have yet to see anyone highlight a genuine problem with Paypal in this thread that is in any way solved by forcing buyers to register and verify themselves before paying. Read my previous post.

Your cart experience is asking for not just the seller and buyer to put total trust in paypal ID checks but also ebid, as it will be them that get it in the neck every time someone gets scammed.

How can eBid be held responsible for a sale I make to someone who is not registered on eBid? Obviously I can't blame them and eBid's T&Cs would confirm that.

OK you and others trust paypal with your life and your grannies life by the sounds of it. But what about the rest of us that see through the smoke and mirrors and see them for what they are. Do we stop using ebid when they introduce your system.

Obviously I and others trust Paypal as much as any other online payment system and people sharing personal or financial information with additional third parties to sales can't do anything but increase the risks.

Although I'm a very keen supporter of eBid, I don't drink the cool aid flavour that apparently makes people want to stick pins in eBay all day long. To me the eBay trashing that goes on just looks like jealousy. eBay is a different animal to eBid and the two cannot be compared. eBay charge big fees and give a different service altogether in return for those fees. We here at eBid prefer to pay lower fees and take more responsibility for developing our sales and marketing.

Now we all agree this problem needs fixed but what you are talking about is not just a case of adding a button or even adding a little bit script. This would be a total overhaul of the site, as it is not just adding a shopping cart, it would have to also make use of the two tier user system that would also have to be created. That would not just be written into the cart but also in to the feedback system and other sections of the site with access some areas or access all areas.

Sorry, but this is all wrong. Think through the logic of all the processes being discussed. This gives you the basic funtionaility of the routines needed to enable it on eBid.

This simple little change would be considered by any one that has even the basic idea about what web design consists of as a major update. So giving people the idea it is anything less is rather silly in my point of view.

Looks like you only want to tell people your views and only read selective posts from others as this very thing was covered toward the end of my last post.

And as to the problems with paypal I have already stated some of the basic reasons why it is not trusted by people, and it is not just phishing sites, as why bother with them when you only have to beat the most simple password, thanks to paypals strength meter.
And like I said before we could go on all day about the problems with paypal security as its user experience is just as bad.

When people keep returning to the same target to have another pop the motivation looks to me like hate and jealousy which is entirely your privilege -- but hating all things eBay doesn't help you sell better by using their success rather than being jealous of it.

But for those that wanted to know what was said and are interested in the subject of the strikethrough buyer

We have not yet been contacted by the bidder. We have removed the associated
fee. Please repost the listing if you wish.

So I either have to think it was an idiot they just saved me from or another sale lost to a customer that got put off by the system?

And as to contacting them this is what I get where the info is supposed to be

Email : Not Available
Address : User no longer active

Looks like another sale NOT made on eBid and another buyer NOT coming back. That's a great shame. Who do you hold responsible? Paypal by any chance? ;-)

So although this is a buyer problem that has to be fixed, I think I have shown it is not any easier for the seller on the other side of it.

I would also like to know if anyone has asked the question if this is a buyer that just fails for whatever reason to sign up, then are their details totally or always banned from the site, as if they were a scammer?

To answer this is very easy. If they never come back they are blocked permanently. Just imagine you are that buyer and think through the steps they must have taken before getting the strke through. Everyone will go just so far before giving up on something. Good marketing practice for any seller means always thinking for the buyer.

[Gothicina]

I'm fairly sure most people have agreed now that the strike throughs of new buyers shouldn't happen and a friendly redirection page prompting them to complete their email verification before they can do anything would go a long way toward solving the problem that started this thread.

This is where there seems to be a great deal of confusion,

As far as I know


IF they don't complete the email verification, ie click on, or paste verification in address bar, they CANNOT buy anything, the account is NOT created.

This is backed up by the FAQ
1) How do I register & upgrade an account?

it's simple. Just go to the registration page, fill out the form, and submit it. You'll receive a confirmation link by email that you'll need to click on then you will then have unlimited access to eBid.

5) Why do you have to email me my password? I want to bid now!

We send you a password that we select, so that we know that you can receive email at the address you provide to us. It's our way of authenticating your registration. By doing this, we avoid problems of incorrect email addresses preventing a deal from happening, and of people registering other people without their knowledge and placing bids on their behalf.


So this IS NOT the stage when they get the strikethru.



As soon as possible after the account is created, eBid then check that the details put in the form are correct.
This is the stage that is causing the problem, if the details are missing, or contain an error, or don't make sense, or the IP is in Nigeria & the postal address is in New York, THEN eBid hold the account & email a request that the details are rectified.

[0ctavias0fferings]

As soon as possible after the account is created, eBid then check that the details put in the form are correct.
This is the stage that is causing the problem, if the details are missing, or contain an error, or don't make sense, or the IP is in Nigeria & the postal address is in New York, THEN eBid hold the account & email a request that the details are rectified.

This does not account for strike throughs that I have seen and I recall Madelaine saying that her Dutch customer was asked to provide a phone number, which is completely unnecessary IMO. Checking that IP and location match is fine but surely that is done before the account is approved. If not then why not? After all, I've heard of someone trying to open an eBid account while they were in Spain and the system wouldn't let them join the eBid UK site because of that. They had to wait until they were back in the UK to sign up.

[HelenAndGraham]

Thanks for that clarification Gothicina.

I was thiniking it was a combination of slow/lost and badly worded emails causing this but I now think it might be easier if eBid tells us why so many new buyers end up struck through after they've made a successful purchase?

Plainly we can only guess what "lies, errors, scams and cheats" these people are apparently trying on. For example, if any of the post registration verification routines are automated then, for all we know, it could be people failing to put a space in their postcode or ladies not wanting to disclose their real age that's causing some of these issues.

It certainly looks as if anyone choosing to protect their phone number is automatically barred from buying anything on eBid which is a shame. I can see why sellers should give personal contact info, but not buyers. Hey ho...

[ropegg]

This is the stage that is causing the problem, if the details are missing, or contain an error, or don't make sense, or the IP is in Nigeria & the postal address is in New York, THEN eBid hold the account & email a request that the details are rectified.

I would like to show a transaction that I thought went very well between eBid and me concerning what I consider a buyer that DOES deserve a strike through and how they received it. To me this would be a better way of handling strikethroughs and suspensions of buyers (new or otherwise) I left the appropriate negative feedback.

The buyer purchased an item from me with apparently false sign up information (which eBid DID NOT detect).

When I had not been able to have contact with the buyer I started researching and could not find a phone number for them on the internet and found address discrepancies as described below.

When I contacted eBid for a phone number they took the strikethrough and suspension precaution (I think rightly so) supposedly because of their address information I gave them. They kindly gave me the phone number they had (results below) but if there had been no phone number it would not have been a disaster for me.

What I am trying to show is that the inconvenience for me was a lot better than if it had been a good buyer and received a strikethrough and suspension unnecessarily. I lost nothing but a little time as I sent nothing because I had not been paid. I feel like a better job of handling a stikethrough and suspension (for almost any reason) for a buyer would most of the time be to let the seller notify eBid there seems to be a problem and let them investigate. This one appeared to be 'real' --- one that needed suspended and eBid did not catch it until they were notified by the seller. The buyer signed up Sat 17 Apr 2010 21:51:29 (EDT) and I sent my first email Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:33 AM --- a week later and the system that seems so anxious to strikethrough and suspend still had not found the address did not appear to exist.





On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:29:48 -0700, "Peggy" wrote:


Hi Support,

Could you please send me the phone number for PMathews71 as I have not been
able to establish any contact with them? They had the winning bid on my
auction ID #23592211.


I would like to note that the zip code for their address is for Ozark,
Alabama (they have given California). According to USPS their address -----
4146 Carmichael Rd. Ste B, Ozark. California 36360 ----- is not a valid
address for either Ozark, Alabama or California, in fact, there does not
appear to even be an Ozark, California.

Regards,
Peggy
Ropegg



Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:33 AM


Hi Peggy,

We have suspended the bidder as a precautionary measure.
Their registered telephone number is xxxxxxxxxxx

If you are unable to contact the bidder please let us know by reply to this thread.

Best Wishes
eBid Support Team




Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 10:46 AM


Hi Support,

I was not able to reach the bidder at this number as it was for a Judges office and I only got a recording.

I have marked them as a non-paying bidder, left negative feedback and would appreciate it if you would please refund my fees for this transaction.

Thank you again and God Bless,
Peggy

[HelenAndGraham]

Yep. That's a good example of how thngs work (or don't work).

Obviously, if they don't have to pay anything to "purchase" an item, then a place like eBid can be a button pushers paradise. That's one of the reasons why I believe stringent verification is a must for sellers and bidders.

For fixed price sales the best way to stop button pushers causing you inconvenience is to make them pay BEFORE an item is considered sold and your example confirms that all the registration and verification hurdles you like wont stop button pushers anywhere near as well as forcing them to pay to take the listing down.

If buyers want to use a shopping basket to get postage discounts etc. then you've just illustrated a benefit to them for registering on eBid.

[baconsdozen]

The RSPCA will be called in soon,this really is flogging a dead horse.