Some explanation is needed...

[astral276]

I don't want anyone to get so worked up about issues that they decide to walk...

But if anyone does choose to 'walk' then just do it. Issuing ultimatums to the site owners will achieve nothing.

That's the trouble when a site like eBid gives its users a voice. It is not long before they migrate from making requests to making demands. Maybe eBay learned that in its early days and is why they now just ignore everyone.

[hotandvintage]

I am a bit stuck on this one, as so far most of the arguments have been a little short sighted but that is due to this being one of those subjects that is just an impossible one to police without upsetting users. So why it was introduced?

Maybe there is something we do not know, and as with most security issues we probably never will if that is the case.

For a start IP checks are a pointless task that is just taking up valuable space on the database, as most people do not have static IP's.

Flash cookies can be used but are also a pointless task, as they can be bypassed simply by using a different browser or user name on your computer.

Card verification is another fallacy as if you get gift cards then they appear to be real cards and they can have any details you wish to add to them

Some have mentioned Paypal verification as being enough. But sorry their verification is a joke and even when they request you send in documents, then there is no checking on if the documents are legitimate by paypal.

So for those that claim that they have already verified with paypal and so do not see why they should supply info to any other site. We probably should allow them to slip away, as if they do not have the sense to know that paypal is considered the least secure payment method by most people with a brain then they are probably going to end up leaving their account open to all forms of attack and then leaving others open to the attack by their open account

ebad have been banging their head off this wall for so long it should have been obvious to ebid that they were going to step into a minefield once they introduced it to the site. So like I say no idea why they added it. So at this point I assume they had to have some reason that we do not have access to.

And most of you will know the location of sites that tell you how ebad users are doing most of the above to stay on ebad and to open up fake paypal accounts.

The shopping cart idea does sound like a good one but how easy it would be to add into the site is the question. But I am not that sure it would be that easy to implement, as there is a lot more to that idea than is being suggested.

Personally I think to start with we should be requesting something a little easier to achieve, such as the removal of the checking on the new users for the moment unless there is good reason, such as refusing to give information or the information giving does not match up to that information available to most companies.

Rather than people stamping their feet and throwing their dummies out of the cot, it would be better to try and suggest things that are possible, as what I suggest is basically taking it back to what went before. So has to be possible.

But I still think that idea of the shopping cart for new users and the prevention of them doing any damage would be a good one for the next major update, as I still think that it would be a major update rather than just changing a few bits of code, as was suggested.

[adruml]

Rather than people stamping their feet and throwing their dummies out of the cot, it would be better to try and suggest things that are possible, as what I suggest is basically taking it back to what went before. So has to be possible.

What has been suggested is eBid should in fact verify as much as they feel they need to however once someone has been accepted as a member to come back strike them through and ask for additional information is where I see the problem. Such as okay members you are aucthorized to buy, but wait not that, let me check you out some more. I would have to assume that is putting some folks off and causing them not to follow through with a sale or even attempt to come back on the site.
This to me appears to be a very easy fix and doesn't involve new software, hardware or programming. Just don't allow access until verified. The only change would be to the definition of verified.

[hotandvintage]

Rather than people stamping their feet and throwing their dummies out of the cot, it would be better to try and suggest things that are possible, as what I suggest is basically taking it back to what went before. So has to be possible.

What has been suggested is eBid should in fact verify as much as they feel they need to however once someone has been accepted as a member to come back strike them through and ask for additional information is where I see the problem. Such as okay members you are aucthorized to buy, but wait not that, let me check you out some more. I would have to assume that is putting some folks off and causing them not to follow through with a sale or even attempt to come back on the site.
This to me appears to be a very easy fix and doesn't involve new software, hardware or programming. Just don't allow access until verified. The only change would be to the definition of verified.

That would not really improve the buyer experience, which I assumed we were after?

The shopping cart would and people like shopping carts, but I still say that is a major update

But it also used to work before they switched to what they are doing now, so switching back seems to be the obvious option untill they can add a sytsem like the shopping cart that would offer the security they want.

As at the moment it is great having security but to build a wall round the site and then add agressive bouncers on the door is a little too much, and what people are suggesting has happened here, as their buyers do not want to jump through hoops to buy things even if it makes things more secure.

[adruml]

But if anyone does choose to 'walk' then just do it. Issuing ultimatums to the site owners will achieve nothing.

That's the trouble when a site like eBid gives its users a voice. It is not long before they migrate from making requests to making demands. Maybe eBay learned that in its early days and is why they now just ignore everyone.

True, ultimatums should be dealt with in one manner...just go.

Some posts have been ultimatums some have been truisms. Either way any newer site auction or otherwise needs input from members. You will always have sarcastic comments, pleasant folk, angry mobs etc on every forum out there. This is just a way of life. If everyone had the same thought process, oh what a terrible world this would be.
This ebay you refer to had started just as eBid is doing. Listening to the users on a daily basis and making changes as they go while weighing the pro's and cons of every suggestion put to them. After years and years of listening I'm pretty sure they have heard just about every suggestion out there. So why would they comment on something they may have already heard time and time again? I wouldn't!
eBid is still a very young site and I feel the administrators do in fact listen to suggestions here in the forums. I am a bit surprised we haven't seen a post from them on this thread but I'm sure it will come when it's time.
The last thing any of us want to do is to encourage sellers or buyers to leave and I'm sure most members are grown up enough to make that decision on their own. Keep in mind a lot of folks truly believe that just the one person (themselves) can make or break an auction site. The strength is in numbers, the numbers are in sales. If there are no sales there are no numbers. Personally I need numbers to survive, currently numbers aren't happening on eBid at the moment.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this auction site but folks are coming here daily in hopes of finding a new home and somewhat similar sales to where they came from. It's not a shock after a few weeks or months they become a little disheartened with few or no sales as that is not what they are used to.
I have stated it many times before, I will not give up on eBid, it is a tremendous site and eventually will be the premier auction site! My only problem is I can't wait around for the sales. I need the income coming in weekly not weakly. Higher fees = higher prices and so far since September of 2010 my customers have decided to pay the higher prices. As ridiculous as that sounds that is what it has been. I would be thrilled with 1/3 the sales here as compared to what I sell elsewhere but it's not happening yet.
Our goal as members (and I will remain an active eBid member) is to obtain and keep as many buyers and sellers as humanly possible at the same time maintain a safe and friendly buying and selling environment.
I do hope we all keep the entire eBid community in mind whenever we post suggestions or make decisions here.

[adruml]

That would not really improve the buyer experience, which I assumed we were after?

The shopping cart would and people like shopping carts, but I still say that is a major update

But it also used to work before they switched to what they are doing now, so switching back seems to be the obvious option untill they can add a sytsem like the shopping cart that would offer the security they want.

As at the moment it is great having security but to build a wall round the site and then add agressive bouncers on the door is a little too much, and what people are suggesting has happened here, as their buyers do not want to jump through hoops to buy things even if it makes things more secure.

Actually that first paragraph was not mine it should have been quoted.

[HelenAndGraham]

Just had to do a double-check that I was reading the right thread...

* sigh *

[hotandvintage]

Actually that first paragraph was not mine it should have been quoted.

I was not on about the first paragraph I was on about the last.

It just seems a little too much for what buyers expect to do when buying, and unless a site has the money to pay for the record checks and the paper checks then they can check all they like but they will know nothing more than when the user first signed on, as ebad and paypal seem to be proving on a daily basis.

[adruml]

I was not on about the first paragraph I was on about the last.

It just seems a little too much for what buyers expect to do when buying, and unless a site has the money to pay for the record checks and the paper checks then they can check all they like but they will know nothing more than when the user first signed on, as ebad and paypal seem to be proving on a daily basis.

So am I to assume you are a big fan of allowing buyers on, letting them make a purchase then striking them through and asking for further verification?
I don't know about anybody else but if I find an item I want and it is at the right price I will furnish the required identification up front. However if I am allowed to make a purchase or several purchases then get shut off later asking for additional identification I can assure you I will not furnish that information.
Although I agree it is nice to be able to have a visitor come to our stores and just go ahead and buy something and pay for it but with the amount of scams taking place nowadays I would rather they take just a little more time to become verified according to site standards before the buy.
I have experienced quite a few scams and really don't need to take time sorting out new ones. If your a verified member you should remain a verified member until you break the rules.
If a firstime buyer decides they do not want to become verified I would have to say chances are something is wrong or they have no intention of becoming a permanent member anyway and to gamble for one sale, I'll pass. I'll stick with long term commitments myself.

[0ctavias0fferings]

@ adruml you are aware that eBid has been around about as long as eBay, aren't you?